Thursday, February 16, 2012

yes, I have words.

 from a reader:

"The reason I decided to comment is because I feel as though there are a lot of marriages that look just like yours but have fallen apart.  And being that this seems to be more common now than staying married, and you are now on the other side of it, do you have any words as to why you think this seems to be happening more and more?  Especially in people who’ve come from Christian backgrounds as yours was?"

Yes, I have words.  But I hesitate.  I'm reluctant as to how much to elaborate on something as touchy as my religious past (and present).  But, 26, you have asked, you are curious; so, elaborate I will, doing my best to be sensitive.  

I guess I should start out by saying that all this is just that…

my words.
my opinions. 
my experience. 

And, I realize that my personal experience is a small sample from which to discern truth.  So, I'm not saying that what follows here is truth...just my opinions.

You must also know that my experience was a bit on the extreme side.  Ok, it was a lot on the extreme side.  But, I realize many have had positive experiences…so, my intent is not at all to negate those experiences, but just answer your question.

The first thing that comes to my mind in my search for words is a quote by Marie Wilson that says,  

“You can’t be what you can’t see.” 

Growing up, I didn’t see a lot of powerful women.  Powerful men, however, were plenty.  My dad was a pastor.  Both of my grandfathers were pastors.  Almost all of my uncles were pastors.  My mom, who wasn’t far from finishing her Bachelors, quit college to help my dad through seminary, as did other women in my family.  It was just what they did.  A woman's place was in the home.  (another disclaimer: I'm not a man hater. Oh, and hail to the stay-at-home mom).  for more inspiration, click here.

And, then there was my nature.  As a child, I was naturally shy, naturally meek, both of which were looked upon pretty favorably by The Church.  Meekness is, after all, a fruit of the spirit. So, nurture this nature with submissive role models, a little Proverbs 31, and then throw in some fruits of the spirit, and you have some decent potential for dysfunction. 

Then there’s the whole idea of purity.  

Ok, now I feel like immediately disclaiming this with a million explanations. I’ll refrain from elaborating too much here, but I will say that there is such pressure on (Christian) kids to not do this and not do that, and if you do or don’t do this, you’re doomed to hell (again…my experience).  In my church, even dating solicited shame.  (And, shame is a whole 'nuther story)  Saving yourself before marriage became the highest act of nobility - never mind that you're not compatible or too young or that your marriage is unhealthy - you were a virgin when you married! Again - I'm not saying that I think this isn't noble - I'm just saying that this was emphasized more than other advice more worthy of emphasis - like, date other people.  Get your degree.  Learn to sail your own ship first.  

And, then the idea of this nebulous will of God guiding your life.  

If you start to have feelings for someone after you've "sought God's will for your life" it’s easy to assume this person is part of the will of God - in fact, this person may have actually been sent by God.  And, of course, God trumped all.  Including academia.  Including thinking logically.  So, I think it was (is) easy for young Christians to marry for sex.  And, easy to marry because you thought it was God's will for your life. Ugh.  I'm not here to say that your wonderful significant other was not sent to you by God...just saying that I've seen people assume this without the addition of rational thinking. 

I could go on, 26, but I'll stop there (I think I hear guns being loaded).  I set out to answer your question thinking that I’d perhaps answer some of my own.  I thought it’d be this….ok, this happened because of A, B, and C, so if you do D, E, and F, it won’t happen to you.  Wah-lah.  Like a three bullet-ed sermon wrapped up nicely at the end.  But, life is never that simple.  Perhaps in my search for answers, I'm just trying to control the future to heal wounds of the past...or trying to formulize a “right way” in order to keep my daughters from getting hurt…because, I think as human beings, there’s a part of us that wants that formula - as though it gives us some sort of a guarantee or security.

So…while there is no formula, I do think that beliefs based solely in tradition and what we’ve been taught need to be questioned.  “A belief is a lever that, once pulled, moves almost everything else in a person’s life…your beliefs define your vision of the world; they dictate your behavior; they determine your emotional responses to other human beings.” (Sam Harris) If, after questioning and reasoning, you arrive back at your same beliefs, so be it.  At least you’ve given them thought.  At least they’ve become yours.  

And, there was good to be gleaned from my religious past; but, there was also, in my opinion, some bad thinking – bad thinking that narrowly defined my vision of the world – bad thinking that dictated my behavior, and so on.  It was like an outdated map, getting me everywhere, but where I wanted to go.  Good thinking, on the other hand, can spare us from confusion, pain, and bad decisions.  

I’m afraid I’ve just opened a can of worms.  
and, stayed up too late (clearly not good thinking)
and likely, contradicted myself somewhere in here.

"Very well, then I contradict myself."  Walt Whitman

g'nite.

35 comments:

Kathy said...

I've been reading your words the past few weeks, going back through old posts like a walk backwards in your timeline. You've been so generous with your thoughts, putting them down in black and white for all of us to see. And what I see is this awesome desire to feel life in it's true form and to know yourself.

There is good stuff here, of real life, of unglossed moments. Thank you for such honesty, it really is what life is about.

Marian Hazel said...

Of course I still like you!
You shouldn't worry about loaded guns. You are speaking the truth.
Every time you write about your life I work out a little more about myself too. I do respect a lot of what I learnt in terms of compassion and love for others - but like you I felt that my shy, eager to please, character was ideal for the church as I was so willing to give all of my own needs and dreams up.
Like you I was drilled in the "you must save yourself for marriage" (mostly by my mother), without any context that my future husband should love and care for me. According to her he just had to be intelligent and like my family (ie her!)

Taking Heart said...

Incredible writing... very meaty.

I wish someone would have told me concepts such as these when I was a small fry.

I wish I would have heard... get your degree, get a job, don't marry the first boy who pays attention to you...

I love the Lord. But my faith has changed and stretched and altered since back in the day when The Little Mermaid was of the devil and marriage was the Christian thing to do. Now I am realistic, turn to God for forgiveness, comfort, hope, and I am more of a thankful... grateful person.

I don't want my daughter or sons having sex before marriage... because I don't want them having babies or STDS and ruining their lives (lol... I'm an OB & ER nurse)... I don't want them to date at all... because I want them to know who they are first.... but Lord knows I can't control everything. I must trust that God loves them more than I do (just a little) and that I need to let them fly, if God made them to be individuals, and I want them to be an individual... then I need to foster that. No one EVER let me fly. Never. And I'm the Christian girl who is 36 years old with 3 kids... divorced and remarried (so UNChristian, lol)... I went back to school and had my college degree when I was 30 and now have a plan to have my masters done by 40. The road leading up to it sucked... but... you are right... not to discount the experience in the traveled road to now... it really sucked. But I am thankful for it... even if I failed Proverbs 31.

Sincerely,
Proverb 31 Drop Out

mumofsix said...

Like you? I think you are amazing. I really admire you. I love your writing, your honesty.
I am married to a good man but somehow in the hurly burly of life we have lost our connection and I am not sure how to/ if I want to reconnect. I feel I owe it to my children but what do I owe myself. I don't know.....
I am the product of divorced parents and I remember wishing my parents were happily married. My mum once said to me "I always felt you blamed me for the divorce." I was in my twenties at the time and my parents split when I was 12. I was so shocked and saddened that I had given her that impression when in fact I so admired her for taking the risk and getting out of an unhappy marriage. Something I don't think I have the courage to do. I'm rambling now...keep on blogging girl. From far away in England I think you're doing so well. Love checking in on you and seeing how you're doing x Sarah

Barb said...

Bravo. Very well said. Anyone that is loading a gun should be living on a compound anyway. Keep it coming, sister. You are brilliant.

Kelle said...

Car, this is so well-written and expressed beautifully and succinctly. And I can only imagine the women to which it will speak. I knew it was coming, but it's even better than expected.
xo

Charlie's Mommy (Beth) said...

Wow is all I can say! This really spoke to me today as I am divorced from what I felt was God's gift to me. Women need to hear these things. Thank you, Thank you!!

Tanner's Mom said...

This is like looking in the mirror at the church I was raised up in.
WOW!!
It took me a long time and I still am deciphering what I believe and actually focus more on God than all the dos and donts, rules and regulations.

Thanks for being so honest. It's suprises me to realize how many people have dealt with this and helps me not feel so isolated and jaded.

~KC: said...

You ARE a good writer! Thank you so much for staying late and creating this powerful post...love your words for many reasons...they speak to me...right to the core of my heart and soul...great choice of quotes and video too.

Loving YOU and YOUR truth even more :)))

A Voice Through the Door
Sometimes you hear a voice through the door
calling you, as a fish out of water
hear the waves, or a hunting falcon
hears the drum's Come back. Come back.
This turning toward what you deeply love
saves you. Read the book of your life,
which has been given you.
A voice comes to your soul saying,
Lift your foot. Cross over.
Move into the emptiness
of question and answer and question.
~Rumi

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Honestly, I admire you and your sis Kelle so much. I admire your closeness. Coming from a Catholic family - my dad dropped dead when I was 20 and my mom, sister and me have been a mess every since. At the moment we aren't even speaking to one another - didn't even see each other for Christmas! But my marraige is all good and I have two boys and we all respect and love each other. Seems like we are the opposite right now!

We all have our bullshit in life, don't we? The bullshit that nags at us at 3am and we analyze and look for the answers. As long as we concentrate on the positive and how our past and bullshit has affected us in a good way bc we have grown and learned from it.

How are you even still single, girl??? There should be a line up at your door. Seems to me like you are on the right track and your future is only getting better! Can't wait to read all about it.

Sorry this is so long - I admire you so much, I could say more and more. Having a healthy relationship with your kids is the BEST REWARD ever man and you've got it!!! WHOO HOOOO!!!

I don't have a blog acct so I'm anonymous....

Kelly

Anonymous said...

Thank you for sharing your truth. I am a youth minister and have worked very hard not to teach students about relationships and sex the way I was taught (what you wrote about); but to instead teach about healthy relationships, what is healthy and appropriate for a teenager to be engaging in. Anyway, thank you again, I so appreciate your honesty in your blog:-)

Kulio said...

I like it when you stay up late and let the words come out like this. I can identify so much with what you say, and it's clear that you're not dissing the church, or God or anyone. And the comments are so good - I think people get you :-) I want my girls to read your blog and catch your spirit of calmness and sureness. Neither of them are in a rush to "get a boyfriend" and I'm so glad. It's the thing I preach to them - find out what YOU want first, what YOU are made to do. And then look around you and see if there is a man who is just as strong and sure as you are, someone who wants a partner, an equal, a mate. I love and admire you so much Carin!!

Kristen Maddux said...

Carin,
I believe strongly in your future as a writer not only because you have the *talent* (which you do), but also because you have the *courage* to write what SO many authors will only generalize or hint at.
When I saw you were taking on religion I thought, yep...gutsy!
But personally, I am a very dedicated Christian so I wondered if we'd see eye to eye (not that it would change my fandom {it wouldn't}, but still, I wondered. :)
But, I agree with your take on things here. I have seen with my own eyes what you described happen in some churches and watched friends growing up crushed under this kind of thinking (a few who to this day, because the RULES thing was so out of proportion, live in rage against God {if they believe in Him at all.})
I'm happy that growing up (I'm a pastor's kid too) I was given strong women role models...and also the room to BREATHE, find myself, grow, and to learn what *I* believe not just what I was taught to believe.
Crucial, that one is!
Thanks again for not shying away from a sticky topic. The more we talk about these things without hate and anger...the better.
I definitely still like you. :)
And sorry about all those parenthesis. hee hee!

Jamie said...

first- you are so brave for putting this all out here, bravo! I can only be inspired to emulate your openness: I'm a [different] 26 year old who was raised on Christian principals, never dated much, and went to religious schools... until college. while I was there I broke all the "rules". I felt guilty and confused as hell, stopped going to church, and disappointed my parents. I'm still trying to figure out my relationship with God [right now I don't think organized religion is for me] AND with my parents, but thanks to those "bad choices" in college I got out of a dependent relationship, moved to New York, and discovered MYSELF and recognized MY needs for the first time. [and that growth eventually led me to a healthy and happy marriage]

I think the most important thing in a relationship [whether a friend or significant other] is that you make each other grow as people. in order to do that you need to be honest, open, and tell the truth even when it can be hurtful. unfortunately the church [at least in my experience] seems to place more emphasis on obedience, submission, and turning the other cheek. it hasn't caused me the same level of heartache that most of these women have gone through, but for a long time I let people walk all over me because I though it was the right thing. the words still speak to me. thanks for sharing.

Anonymous said...

Hello! 26 here:) Just wanted to start off by saying heck yes I still like you! (don't know if that question was directed toward me or all readers but just wanted to let you know either way!) And secondly wow, thank you for devoting one of your posts to my question! I wasn't expecting that so thats pretty rad:) I know this subject is very touchy and I really appreciate your bravery in answering it. I too am very familiar with all aspects of 'The Church' and understand the extremes that you wrote about. I personally didn't have to deal with such extremes but know others who are close to me that have. I agree that what you have been taught needs to be questioned thus the formula for building faith. And I feel that should not only apply to spiritual beliefs but just life in general, that's how we gain our confidence and knowledge. Which reiterates your very simple but profound logic of "If after questioning and reasoning, you arrive back at your same beliefs, so be it. At least you've given them thought. At least they've become yours." I too, could keep going on, so I will finish by saying no matter what background we come from regarding this topic, one thing I do know is that God is a loving and merciful God. His love for us is unfathomable. He knows we are not perfect and destined for failure, and He still loves us anyways. Thank you again, Carin, for your bravery in replying to my question, I know you didn't have to. You've truly she'd light on a lot from your personal experience. Thank you thank you.

-26 :)

Unknown said...

New reader here. Love this blog! The way you throw down that brutal honesty, it's life as it is, not covered with sugar. I didn't have the same experience as you, but agree with you on so many levels. Living is so much more than just going to sleep at night and saying "today was alright, no complaints". Thanks for opening up your life to us all.

Tali said...

I really loved this post. Self actualization at it's most powerful.
And I loved the trailer to Miss Representation too. We still have to meet in our little land of the EL- we should try to get a screening of this film somewhere locally!
http://www.missrepresentation.org/mr-screenings/category/michigan/upcoming/

mrc-w said...

Of course I still like you! Wait no, I mean LOVE you, of course! :)
I know what you mean about Christian pressure! I'm so glad Jesse "broke the mold" for us by being brave enough to question everything and to go to a public school (nothing against SAU - but with him going to another school, my perception/expectation of my options really opened up).

Maria said...

Thought provoking, for sure. Great writing. We're all searching, aren't we? Looking back, looking ahead, sometimes missing what's right in front of us. Despite the bad, the good is in those 3 daughters of yours & the vision you have for your life.
Keep writing.

Elissa said...

LOVE the honesty and transparency! Coming from the same denomination, I too felt the pressure of rules and expectations, not to mention scorn and guilt when The Church should have offered the grace and compassion being preached from the pulpit. I pray my children seek out God and His truth rather than rules and regulations. Such good stuff here...I need to make time more often.

Anonymous said...

Bea-you-tiful writing!!

My Grandma always told her kids, "God gave you your own brain so that you can use it!"

Anonymous said...

I"m a christian in a great church of open minded people, but can see how people get caught in the situations you do!

That being said, I was so lucky to have parents who wanted me to make my own decisions and loved me even when I wasnt sure what I believed. Also parents who fought for their marriage and tought me to love my husband however we both may change.. I'm definatly not the meek and mild type, but I think being able to stand on my own two feet is what drew my husband to me:)

Just wanted to let you know that their are young christian girls out their who yes had more than one boyfriend (no not all from church, my husband wasnt a christian for the first years we dated) and yes managed to get married a virgin(after 4 years dating), and is very happily married.

Thank you for sharing you're life with me, I look forward to seeing how God continues to bless you and blow your mind with the things you could never have dreamed of:)

Anonymous said...

P.S. (Sorry I know I'm going on a bit-just so nice to finally hear someone say the things you said!) I did also travel on my own, work and study and still working and studying, so is my husband.. We both have so much we still want to be and places we want to travel.. SO yea agreed those are sooo important for any person, man or women, to have your own passions and adventures.:)

Anonymous said...

So honest. So willing to go there. So authentic.

You are a free thinker.

Elliot.

Shelley said...

One last thing, if you get a chance you definitely check out the movie "Higher Ground". I saw in the theater last year and it was just amazing. It's a movie that kindly and compassionately touches on issues of faith/the church without taking sides.

Anonymous said...

Carin, you are the coolest!

I am married with two young children, ages 3 and 5. My 5 year old daughter has Down syndrome so I found you thru Kelle's blog. Although our lives are different, I keep coming back to read because you are one of my favorite writers and I love to read and try to understand what it is like to walk in someone else's shoes. (And, of course, I am also a former Sat owner! ha!) Okay, I don't know if this makes much sense...what I want you to know is that your writing is powerful, beautiful and real. Thanks for sharing your heart.

Jill B (Overland Park, KS)

Lena said...

Everyone above has said it all and said it so well.

You are a writer at heart. I love how you articulate what you are feeling and thinking. I am so happy you are writing again. I missed your voice.

Becky at lifeoutoffocus said...

This is why I love to read your blog and love your IG pics and whatever else you post: I get you. I grew up the same way. Church 3 times a week. Only Christian school. Purity this. Don't do that. It's all fine and good, yes. But the other side is never shown. I strayed from a lot before marriage but some friends weren't so lucky and instead are in your situation with no husband and little kids. Thanks for saying your truth. Xo

Anonymous said...

I love talking about religion...and politics! Right now I'm going crazy over the contraception issue, or as I call it, the continued war to control women's bodies. Carin, I really enjoy reading your blog and I'm amazed at how many people are moved to comment. It means something both to them and you. How religion shapes our lives is so damn interesting. I was raised Pentecostal and really, I loved it until I went to college and suddenly I wanted to dance, wear make-up and go to movies, which of course were all sins in my church. Enter a new culture to bend my mind...and some 40 years later I'm about as far from that religion as possible and attend a Unitarian Universalist Church which I love. I say keep writing about religion and if you're doing that, can politics be far behind?

Anonymous said...

so much to say
after getting to know u

now living in a muslim country
and once again
hearing all "the rules"
and living to please others
feeling guilty
for no good reason
i have issues
with organized religions
and personal interpretations
and hypocrites
and SO QUICK TO JUDGE OTHERS
that's not r role
imposing ur beliefs
on others
turns many away

my dad was an italian
a mamoni
only son
expected to attend catholic chuch
with my nonna daily
when he became alter boy
and had to go help
prepare the wine
and i call them crackers
he saw the priests and nuns
rolling in the hay
he explained years later
to us
sex is normal
but don't preach one thing
and do another
be the best u
u can be
and it spreads

he was a doctor
scientific mind
questioned everything
and encouraged the same
in us
we occassionally went
to unitarian andblack baptist churches
they were so entertaining
made u feel something

he was in prsion camp
in poland and germany
for 2 and1/2 years
learned a lot
and put life in perspective
he taught us
to treat others
as we want to be treated
be kind
question everything
don't judge

was also realistic
knew the teen years
and raging hormones
would hit all 5 of us
he gave no rules
words of wisdom
taught us the anatomy
and consequenses
and said that if
we choose to experiment
don't be stupid
prevent std's and pregnancies
go talk to him
or someone qualified

i don't like so many rules
many just hurt people permantly
i see this daily in dhaka
and with many friends

i taught my kids
think about what they wanted
never do anything u don't want
come talk
with any question

ur upbring was extreme
and isolating
forced feed rules
and so called cosequences

in bangladesh
many get married very young
because they r full
of normal raging hormones
the people they married at 17
r not at all the person
they r at 37
so many unhappy unions

people put way too much emphasis
on the act of sex
but don't talk about
real life after marriage
or about love

and u know
i have to include
what i said to my kids
"test drive as many cars
as u want
before u buy"

why settle for a ford
when u could have
a fiery ferrari
too late
if u settle quickly

i miss u
wish we were back in dc
sipping at dean and deluca's
yapping away

u r great
quite remarkable
with all u faced
that u r so together

i love and miss u
but i must say
u suck at keeping up
love u anyway
xoxo rosa

Just Trying Not to Blink .... said...

A brave post, beautifully written.

The best piece of advice I received from my father, and one of the things I will pass along to my three daughters, is not to get married until you are at least 30!

hb said...

So glad my Free Methodist mom left home, worked at a soda fountain to put her self through school. And never hesitated to tell my dad what she thought. Little did I know then what that would help me do later. Our faith journey is just that. A journey that belongs to only us, and we will go the way that is laid before us. I'm proud of you and the new beginning of generations of women you have begun starting with your three girls. I always knew this amazing woman was underneath all of that....xx

Carin said...

I don't know if any of you get email verification of comments on here, but if you do, or if you're coming back here, I've so loved these comments...the shared honesty and curiosity...and, the compliments about my writing.

I laughed at The Little Mermaid being of the devil - I know that language.

I felt this good sort of pride in being called a free thinker (my religious background demands I disclaim this pride...sigh).

I wanted to herald all the brave who have dared to leave dependency.

And, I wanted to reach into my computer screen and hold the hands of who might feel trapped.

Thanks for reading and commenting.

Unknown said...

I saw (on Twitter?) that you were writing about faith/religion, but knew I couldn't read until I had time to sit, ponder, and really see each word.

You. are. brave.

I am a questioner. Always have been. . . always will be. I don't believe the world is black and white. That doesn't always fit well in my community. . . but there is no other way for me.

There is so much I want to say. . . but I don't want to take up too much space. So I will say, simply. . . Thank you.